Why I Hate The Dev Community – Sometimes
I have been a part of, and love, the dev community for many many years now. I’ve wanted to be a web developer all my life and appreciate the fact that I can support my lifestyle with it and that people look up to me to learn what I’ve learned.
I’m very thankful for all you awesome developers and designers out there who’ve been supportive – and I’m sorry you’ll have to see a bit of the snarky side of me today.
You see, today I wrote an article that talked about ways you use to help you chose what CMS you’d like to learn, along with a short, one paragraph entry about each CMS I’ve used or come in contact with. Most people understood what the article was about and were happy to list their favorite CMS and why they chose to use it.
Others though, mostly the only 5 supporters of Joomla that exist, chose to take one sentence in the entire article and bend it out of shape and argue about it the whole day.
Yes, I admit it. I said Joomla sucks. I stand by what I said. Why? Because I’ve always said what I’ve meant and always mean what I say. I don’t filter or give out BS. I’m not going to lie to my readers and say “Oh this and this was so awesome!” just to be “fair”. Life isn’t fair and neither are CMS’s.
“But“, you might say, “that’s just YOUR opinion!“.
To which I will reply -> duh.
Every article that I’ve ever written has been “my opinion”. I did write it after all. You see, there are 340958309485490856340985430593845 different ways of doing the exact same thing on the web. How I accomplish making one page work is completely different from how others accomplish it. Yes, we have best practices, but that doesn’t mean we have one set way to code anything.
Calling me an idiot because I chose the “simple” CMS or claiming it’s “only” for blogs doesn’t help your case. It’s not my fault you choose a more complicated CMS where it takes 2-3x as long to do what you could do in WordPress. Also, if you think WordPress is only for simple sites or blogs, you’ve obviously never spent real time working in it. Or you’re a crappy developer. You choose.
Of course I’m not forcing my opinions down your throat. We all have them. Dad used to say “opinions are like buttholes….“. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to change my opinion just because you don’t like it. If you want that mess you can find it on another blog with another writer. Not here.
Another point I have to make, how can I write something that isn’t in my opinion? I can’t write about products or things I’ve never experienced, I can only tell you what has and hasn’t worked for me and let you decide what to do with it.
I welcome different view points. I love the fact that you have a different opinion because that means we can learn from each other. What I DON’T like is some one whining because they don’t like my opinion and then they proceed to argue with me and be hateful. Like I said on Twitter, if you don’t like what I say, you don’t have to listen to it. Arguing with me isn’t going to change either of our opinions.
Just because you love your products and hate mine doesn’t give you the right to be an asshole.
And that’s why this community can suck.
About the author
Amber Weinberg specializes in clean and semantic XHTML, CSS and WordPress development. She has over 10 years of coding experience and is pretty cool to work with. Amber is available for freelance work, so why not hire her for your next project?
“But“, you might say, “that’s just YOUR opinion!“.
To which I will reply -> duh.
It’s really sad that you have to clarify this to the multitude of idiots out there. But I understand. There are many idiots in the world, and all of them speak up.
“And that’s why this community can suck.”
That’s why several communities can suck. If someone doesn’t agree with you, they want to shut you down, have you fired, or try to discredit you out of the business.
Keep the snarky coming. It just whips the idiots into a frenzy. And I love the word “snarky.” So great.
LOL Thanks
It’s really sad I have to explain that!
I will say, however, that choosing software based on poor research (if any) is prolly a common reason as to why people are left with bad tastes in their mouths after a project. Not really commenting on how much Joomla research I think you did or didn’t do, just noting that when I read such articles I’m usually expecting a worse case scenario to be “this didn’t really fit my needs for xyz reasons” as well as “I didn’t like these features because of such and such.” You kind of did that to some degree but your tone -was- kind of dismissive, and while that’s what you appeared to be going for I’m just surprised that you’re so bothered by responses as…intense as your opinion o:)
Besides, we all know the -real- reason the dev community sucks. The “Comic Book guy” attitude. That, and poor documentation. Haha
Here here! I hate that “Comic Book Guy” attitude.. I work with other developers that are like that and I want to punch them in the throat….
Well said Amber. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I read the comments on the CMS article with disgust. There seems to be this opinion amongst some in the development community that WordPress is lightweight, not a proper CMS, not for serious developers etc. I couldn’t disagree more.
I’ve invested a lot of time in learning WordPress and find it a great platform. Some of my non-technical clients even find learning the WordPress Dashboard challenging (and that’s after I’ve stripped it down). Why complicate things further with an un-user friendly CMS? (On a side note, I also use MODx and am dipping my toes into Drupal – but still love WordPress).
Exactly. WordPress is as easy or hard as you make it out to be. Joomla had just a terrible interface, I had to search for like 30 minutes to find out how to edit one thing. yuck. The first time I saw WordPress, it took about a good 5 minutes before I had the admin area down pat.
But hey, if people want to use Joomla, more power to them, it’s just not my cup of tea.
I tried Joomla and came to the same conclusion – I’m not bashing it though. The whole CMS debate gets a bit like the old Mac vs PC debate at times! Try out a couple of CMS’s and make up your own mind. Ignore the haters!
I’ve found it useful to learn a few CMS’s so I can can pick and choose the CMS based on the needs of the client. They’re the one’s who have to use it.
Kudos for the great blog – I’ve subscribed.
Haters gonna hate, trollers gonna troll – such is live on the information superhighway. Keep up the great articles.
Thanks Mitch
I didn’t know you actually followed them..you need to comment more! 
I left a comment on the other site too. It’s quite a bit longer.
Just read it, thanks
Possibly the best yet most succinct comment I’ve heard in days. Nice one Mitch.
Better not hate me :p Don’t get all caught up with trolls who have nothing better to do. Let them bang their heads against that module-based shit show that is Joomla. Personally, I feel sorry for them :p
Amber:
I get what you are saying. I too hate getting mired in the sacred cow wars.
Someone wise once told me: “Haters are gonna hate. That is what they do.”
I no longer give haters the time of day. They just aren’t worth it.
“My ship is sailing. You can come along for the ride or stay on the shore, but I’m not collecting anchors.”
lol love that analogy!
Thanks! Got that one from my wife. She is a straight shooter, too.
Well said Amber!
I vote for editing that post and putting this at the end of it.
http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5036900/PROBLEM.jpg
Me too
Sum it up… CMS’s are for n00b’s anyways. (not the coders, the users.)
Love you Amber, don’t worry about it. *in a NY accent*
I love you too Andrew!
I Made some websites with joomla and I really don’t like this cms, I have found my cms which is MODx, I really love it and now I want to learn wordpress because I love its blogging functions, the backend is also really nice, you don’t have to fight with it when you should spend more time with developing.
Let this hater talk, just don’t listen to them. Ah and I enjoyed your article on the other site
I’ve never tried ModX…will have to check it out sometime
Certainly guys I do consider you are not helping at all, with those comments against people who prefer a CMS you do not like, you are just being part of the dev community I hate – sometimes.
Yes, they might be wrong, but you are not doing any better. And do not get me wrong I am not a Joomla! employee out-of-work, a hater, or an internet troll. But as a developer that is still learning and making his way in the business, I think we all should encourage the others to try all the things by themselves and let them decide.
Amber, I know it was your personal opinion, but those are the kind of articles you post on a personal blog not on a community website, otherwise it would better to stay a little more neutral to avoid this kind of things. You may warn about Joomla being too complex or hard to use, but saying that sucks, it can be rude as well to your fellows.
And it’s not just the Dev community.
Keep on keepin’ on, and be proud that you are part of the larger “conversation” on the topic. I subscribe to your blog because I know next to nothing about development (being a writer and all). You help me learn. So, kudos.
Thanks Emily
You really did hit a nerve there didn’t you, in the end everyone has there own tastes when it comes to CMS’s personally Joomla to me does have a harder learning curve and WordPress is a lot simpler to learn and modify. I haven’t found a website wordpress can not be used for, but like i said each to there own next time make sure you have the full A-Z of paid and open source and make sure to like a dislike them all lol…. that will please everyone then lol…
Haha I must have. Next time I’m going to say:
Which CMS is better??? ALL of them! Use EVERY one in every project!
Drupal is the obvious best cms, WordPress is and always will be a blog that can be a cms.
In my experience this is true for a lot of programmers. They’d get into stupid fights over which programming languages are better… and by fights I mean things like “C rules!” “No C sucks. Java all the way!”
I for one like PHP a lot, and a lot of people just come up to me with “oh you certainly haven’t seen ASP.net and what it can do. You’d be instantly converted”. So frustrating because I did and I didn’t like it.
As you said: good for them that they like Joomla, but it doesn’t mean that you’re stupid just because you prefer a different CMS.
Thanks Vera ^_^
Sorry, not that article.
Here it goes my answer to your blog post:
I know you hada best intentions, but…
Paraphrasing your words:
If you think that Jommla “It’s very clunky, the admin area was impossible for both me and my client to understand or pick up quickly and coding for it – forget it. Plugins were buggy for it, it was tough to customize and there isn’t a large enough community to find what you’re looking for in terms of customization” then “you’ve obviously never spent real time working in it. Or you’re a crappy developer. You choose.”
Also your whole article was written from kind of WP-fanatic point.
“Just because you love your products and hate mine doesn’t give you the right to be an asshole.”
Sorry to say that, but maybe you should think about that a minute, and look in the mirror: you become one.
Please show me where in my writings or comments I was an asshole to anyone. Just because I dislike your platform of choice and said it sucked, doesn’t make me an asshole.
Here it was:
“Just because you love your products and hate mine doesn’t give you the right to be an asshole.”
Did you get that right?
You love your WP so much, that you didn’t take enough time to KNOW how Joomla works, and how to achieve what you wanted. You just installed it, tried few (of more then 6000!) extensions, become frustrated that you can’t do it like in WP and stated in a an article that Joomla is crap. How much time did you sacrificed for Joomla?
—
Four years I was looking for CMS for my reworked site. I’d tried WP first because it was most popular CMS. I’s spend 2 days trying to know it and achieve what I wanted on my site. Basic WP hadn’t most of features I wanted, and there was (at that moment) couple of hundred mostly useless to me plugins. Templating was a nightmare. I gave up. I knew I hadn’t chance to get what I wanted without making self-made plugins. I didn’t like it at all. But I’m not saying that it sucked. It is useful for others with different needs.
I searched again, and tried many of them. Drupal and many others.
Then I found Joomla. It took me 1 day to read about it, to know how it works, and how to get almost all the features I wanted (there was 3500 extensions then to choose from) most of them ready out-of-the-box. 2 days later my (large) site was almost ready and go, and went on-line. There was problems, like always are when you don’t know well your tools. But now I know more, and I have many more features to choose from.
I suppose WP is more powerful now, then it was 4 years ago and I realize that it is most widely used CMS. But I had enough those statements from WP-fanboys (and WP-fangirls) that “WordPress is soooooo great, and Joomla sucks” everywhere. I respect your choice, respect mine.
—
You didn’t tried Drupal, but you didn’t stated it is sucked. Because someone told you that it is great. So I’m (and many other in their comments) telling you that Joomla is great, flexible, powerful, and easy to manage. It only need to know it a little. So, should I expect that you correct your statement in article? I don’t think so. Because for you Joomla sucks and you “don’t recommend it to anyone”.
This article wasn’t written in “it’s my personal opinion” style. It didn’t points what’s pros and cons for every CMS after YOU using it for longer then few clicks. It was just a statement from POV of WP developer: “WP is amazing, use it. Other CMS may be good, but Joomla just sucks”. And it was published on site where people looking for guide what to choose. Sorry but it just not fair. Next time just write how good WP is, and what can we get using it. But don’t write anything about CMS you just didn’t know at all.
So, did you became asshole that hates Joomla? I have no idea. You know the best.
PS: I rarely write comments, but this time I just had enough of this “WP is so cool! Joomla is crap!”.
First off, you have no idea how long I tried Joomla, you’re just assuming I spent a few minutes on it which I didn’t.
Second of all, saying I hate a piece of software or that it sucks doesnt make me an asshole. How often do you hear people say macs suck or Windows suck? Those people aren’t assholes.
The people who ARE are those who personally attack others just because they had a different opinion. If you read through my comments or articles there’s no where in there that I attacked a personal or made a mark against anything other than a piece of software.
So again I ask you, point me to something I said that makes me one. You can’t.
qbin:
Since you don’t comment often, I’ll call it a mitzvah to let you know that anonymous comments rarely get taken seriously. it shows you’re afraid to stand up to the words you’re writing. I don’t believe that to be the case, but for future reference it might help you to put a website or email address behind that.
I have an honest question for you – are you a developer, or a user? I’ve tried all three of the major OS CMS systems (Drupal, Joomla, and WP). Drupal was overkill for what my typical clients need – it works GREAT for web applications, but for simple blog/site combination it’s too much. Joomla was very similar – it was a nice set of features hidden behind menus and options that were just too confusing for the average user to figure out quickly – and that’s the goal of most modern web design.
For most developers it’s their job to find out what the client needs, build accordingly, and get them using it quickly and efficiently. Drupal and Joomla have a major learning curve – and while (given enough practice and time) someone could learn it, my clients need a solution that is quicker to set up and learn. Hence why I chose WordPress.
The argument is that WP can’t do a lot of the same things as Drupal or Joomla. While I tend to agree on the Drupal side (once again, web applications) I’ve found plugins that will let me do with WordPress what people need in Joomla (Widget Logic, for example).
All I’ve seen on your comments is how you want to correct Amber for her tone and language. And on her own blog now, nonetheless. The article is her opinion, as are most on the Internet. Should she have clarified her use and experience with the CMS’ a bit more? Perhaps. But a few anonymous comments from someone trolling her on her own site, and her asking for proof that you can’t provide – that’s just making you look like the worse man in this case.
*disclaimer – I purely work in WordPress, but I have set up sites in both Joomla and Drupal – I stick behind my love for WordPress.
WP is amazing, use it. Other CMS may be good, but Joomla just sucks
+1 for the “opinions are like buttholes…” quote.